BGM Whinge - Split from My name? [Archive]

BGM

16-06-2005, 07:09 PM

Apparently swearing on a truff server constitutes as being offensive.

So for example, by saying "oh sh*t, I fell in the lava". You are being offensive and you will be warned about it. Even though it’s not offensive to anyone at all. There was a player who had the word anus in his name and was forced to change it. Just tell me, how is the actual word anus being offensive. :lol:

Funny how truff people are allowed to call people ghey freely. Hell, there is even a server called it. Ghey is of course a slur against homosexuals. Changing the spelling of something doesn't make it less of a slur. Please don’t try to tell me it means something different. It’s spelt that way and sounds the same for a reason.

Would going around calling people kniggers not be classed of offensive because it's spelt wrong. hmm Maybe if i changed the "e" to an "a".... Of course it would be considered offensive any way its spelt. Why should ghey be any different?

There is nothing wrong with your name since you are allowed to use acronyms to swear and feel free to also swear in a different language as that’s fine too. Heck, actually be offensive to someone (not just swearing randomly because you fell in the lava) in a different language and its fine.
I've seen it happen many times. Players are reported for it but nothing much is done.

16-06-2005, 07:34 PM

:) You would certainly know about the rules here wouldn't you BGM .Seeing as your such an avid rule follower an fine upstanding member of the community here BGM :roll: .

Have a nice Day now

Truff

16-06-2005, 07:59 PM

Apparently
<snipped>
done.

What a load of biased baloney.

Note to all others: don't feed the troll.

16-06-2005, 08:14 PM

Sorry but I just couldn't resist feeding the Troll > (BGM) :) .Haven't seen such a load of crap since the farmer up the road rolled his Manure Spreader :lol:

I-CEE

16-06-2005, 08:18 PM

first let me just say a polite whinge if you can call it that . thank you we like these whinges .

wtf first of who said you could not play with that nick if you dont want to say here pm it me .

and dont take much notice of BGM is pissed of because hes not allowed to play on Truff servers

defention of abuse is

when someone calls some one a name

example

BGM you w****r
BGM you lame dicksplash
BGM your a gay noob ( notice the term gay is diffrent to the fun term gehy as in the internet slag for fun )
these are abuse this is what you get kicked and banned for

saying things like

oh shit i killed myself

omg i f****ng fell of

oh god iam w****r i fell of the map

saying these things a couple of times will not result in much

maybe a polite warning to stop swearing or spamming depending on the time and how many times it is said

to get back oon to the subject your name is been discussed in the admins forum like we have done to many others before this .

nicks can be hard to deal with because some names are offensive to some ppl and other names are offensive to other ppl so it is hard to police

IMO as you have come to the forums and politely asked if you are allowed to you use your nick and you would change it if asked says to me you are a responsable person and you did not pick the name to offend anyone .
just wait a while and we will have an awnser for you :wink:

great respect I-CEE

Scion

16-06-2005, 09:37 PM

tell me about it willow lol

just a little info for bgm

mate the term gay was originally used to define happiness or joy someone saying i am gay in victorian times was referring to there state of happiness at that time, i believe if you look it up in the oxford english dictionary that this is still the main definition (not entirely sure if this is correct as i have had no cause to look it up recently)

so long before it was used to describe a homosexual it had another meaning therefore i see no way that it could be considered offensive for some of us to go around saying you ghey wookie to each other (which in fact is a private joke amongst some of the admins)

take some advice bgm from an old friend, i knew you long ago before i even came to truffs, i respected you then you were a nice guy but something in you changed, now i am a very patient man but my patience with you is wearing rather thin, repeatedly i have fought your corner and repeatedly you have shown me up to be an idiot for believing you can be what you once were, you bought the bans upon yourself and have shown none of us reason why we should lift it, your constant snide remarks and bitter comments just give everyone more reason not to allow you back on the servers, go away like we agreed and relearn what you lost along the way, if you regain your enjoyment of the game i am sure you will become the great guy we once all knew.

sorry if i hijacked ure thread wtf you will recieve ure answer soon but in the meantime i would suggest you pm me or icee the name of the person asking you to change ure name and continue to enjoy your games here :)

sci

BGM

16-06-2005, 10:35 PM

Well that word ghey has always bugged me and I've always thought this about it. I've always wanted to mention it but knew it would cause such a fuss and hinder my chance of becoming unbanned, so I kept it to myself.
Since I'm never going to be unbanned I wanted to get it of my chest and explain my feelings about the word.

Yes I know the original meaning of the word gay but it has meant homosexual for an incredibly long time.
Everyone knows that irl when you call something gay, it's a slur, meaning its not working, its stupid etc. It’s used deliberately as an offensive to homosexuals. Hijacking the word and changing its spelling so you can use it freely on the internet, to mean exactly the same thing, just isn’t right.

I'm sure all you admins could easily call each other ghey in your local if there was a homsexual around without feeling guilty, right? I think not.
Or maybe you could and then if he is offended by it, kindly explain that it’s spelt differently. I'm sure he'd understand. Yeah right.

Scion mate, you and I both know that I will never be unbanned. And going away and doing nothing doesn't help at all.
Don’t forget I actually did go away and fake nicked for months without trouble. Only to be banned again after being wrongly accused of cheating. Whatever I do, I can't win and I’m not going to get to play again. So no point in keeping my mouth shut when I have strong feelings about matters such as this.
I mean, what's going to happen if I just go away? Somebody get in touch with me after 6 months or so and tell me I can be unbanned. lol

Thank you for making an intelligent post anyway, scion.

Sorry to wtf for posting this in your thread. I just thought if I made a new one to express my feelings it would be deleted without comment, just simply because its me. Since this was on topic as to being what nicks are acceptable, i wanted to make my feelings known.

And yes this is such as load of crap LG. Thank you for your constructive posts. However being offended by the word ANUS and forcing a player to change his name after he has always used it, is not a load of crap at all now, is it? :roll:

Jeanie

16-06-2005, 10:43 PM

It’s used deliberately as an offensive to homosexuals. Hijacking the word and changing its spelling so you can use it freely on the internet, to mean exactly the same thing, just isn’t right.

I'm sure all you admins could easily call each other ghey in your local if there was a homsexual around without feeling guilty, right? I think not.
Or maybe you could and then if he is offended by it, kindly explain that it’s spelt differently. I'm sure he'd understand. Yeah right.

Actually I have to disagree, being a little bit gay myself and having many many gay friends who call themselfs, gay, queens, puffs etc I dont think its particulaly offensive to gay people. The same way as one of my friends uses the phrase...'alright slag' on the phone to me as a greeting.

It becomes offensive when teamed with other insults like ' you stupid gay lamer' or 'f'ing gay twit'.

You can use some words within a certain context without it being a direct insult.

16-06-2005, 11:19 PM

Another case of not knowing what your going on about BGM . You don't know the reasons behind the making of them change the name .So why don't you just crawl back under you rock .If you don't know what your talking about.Then there is no need opening your mouth an looking any more foolish then you do any time you do post .Which i might add is most times about things you think you know about but don't :lol: .You seem to always bring up stuff that you know just about enough about .to make sure you look just about a dumb as you act . I don't care who you are or who you know BGM but you will always be an idiot in my books .An every time you open your mouth on the forum here it just proves my point more . An I don't fully understand why your even allowed the option of posting here in the first place :) .I was under the impression you were Banned from everything to do with Truff servers ,Forum ,IRC an any other chat areas having anything to do with Truff servers :lol: . So as far as I'm concerned you can go ahead an open your mouth again in reply to this post .An again show us your vast intellect an just why you are no longer playing here .As for me this topic is ended I've said my peice the floor is all yours . I'll be just all goosebumps awaiting your witty an wise reply :roll:

Erotic-Sludge

16-06-2005, 11:41 PM

GAY PRIDE

http://erotic-sludge.truff.net/animalz/Lions%20gay%20pride.jpg

Truff

17-06-2005, 12:21 AM

Aaaargh

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!

We really don't need another of these pathetic arguments here.

TurboSi

17-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Yes I know the original meaning of the word gay but it has meant homosexual for an incredibly long time.
Everyone knows that irl when you call something gay, it's a slur, meaning its not working, its stupid etc. It’s used deliberately as an offensive to homosexuals. Hijacking the word and changing its spelling so you can use it freely on the internet, to mean exactly the same thing, just isn’t right.

You should also stop and think how we use the word 'ghey' before you decide we are being offencive to homosexuals.

Ghey, as it's used here means silly or exceedingly stupid. Sometimes it means more gay than gay which wraps the corner back to being silly. It can also mean lame but is seldom used that way...ie : I just installed WinXP and now my computer is ghey!

If you pay attention to the english language you'll see it's always evolving and incorporating new slang all the time. If you call someone a nig*** you pretty much have insulted them. If two black people say 'hey my nigga' to each other it's a greeting. Even some of my black friends say 'what's up my nigga' to me and I'm white. So now it means i'm a part of their group.

So before you run around saying we are insulting people tell the truth about the context of how we use those words...and since we are talking to each other...in our group, it's none of your damn business what we call each other.

FoamyGal

17-06-2005, 01:37 AM

Aaaargh

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!

We really don't need another of these pathetic arguments here.

Aaaargh

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!

We really don't need another of these pathetic arguments here.

Aaaargh

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!

We really don't need another of these pathetic arguments here.

Lol maybe we need even bigger letters in the forum so I thought lets try an optical trick hehe ;)

BGM

17-06-2005, 01:58 AM

You guys seem to completely miss the point. I know exactly how you use the word ghey. You use it in a friendly way to insult. I do it all the time with other words. e.g. mate you are such a prick. I can say it in a friendly way and it’s not insulting at all. Depends on the situation and how it’s said.

The fact is you did not just make up this word from the top of your heads, it came from the word gay which is used as an insult to mean incredibly stupid, silly and what have you. This is what a lot of straight people call homosexuals, as they see homosexuality as stupid.
You said it yourself "Ghey, as it's used here means silly or exceedingly stupid". Exactly! And that’s how the term gay was coined in a negative way. You just changed the spelling. And yes I know you use it in a friendly way, but this doesn’t disguise its origin.

If you call someone a nig*** you pretty much have insulted them

No, I will call my black friend a knigger. It’s a new word I just made up. It means to be silly. I will use it in a friendly way of course. I’m sure he will be pleased when he hears me calling it him :?

Jeanie, you kind of have a point. It’s exactly like the nigga thing. A gay calling another gay person “gay” is fine. It’s not insulting used in this way. Like a nigga calling another nigga, “nigga” is fine. Personally I don’t understand why this is. It’s either an insult or its not. Whether a white person says nigga or a black person says it, it should still mean the same. Maybe someone can shed some light as to why when a white person calls a black person nigga, its insulting.
Since gay is what straight people call things for being stupid, gay is indeed used in an insulting way by non-homosexuals.

Once again, Ghey is simply a misspelling of the word gay. Irrelevant of how you guys use the word in a friendly social way. It's about where the word comes from.

Like I say, would anyone (as a straight person) call your friend ghey in public if there was a homosexual around and he was not a friend, but a stranger?
I think not, but can somebody actually answer this question for me please?

The troll comments are basically a way of saying. I have no defence to this so I will simply post "dont feed the troll". Fair enough. It just makes me feel more that I’m right. Whereas I prefer to read posts like Scions and Jeanie’s that actually make me think.

LG please don’t talk about my intellect or call me an idiot until you've grasped some basic grammar. Thanks.

I-CEE

17-06-2005, 05:55 AM

BGM your never going to be unbanned and by the wy we love you kiss kiss :wink:

willowgarden

17-06-2005, 07:17 AM

some of you will know how much this pains me, but I am with BGM on this one :(
i have often felt uncomfortable about the way ghey is used here - and had assumed 'ash to be a homosexual for many months before being told he wasn't :oops: - I know gay also means happy etc, but the way it is used here obviously refers to homosexual people (hiya Lions in the piccie) and i always felt it was iffy. Like Jeanie, I too know many gay people, and most wouldn't give a flying fig about what is said here, but a couple would be genuinely upset by it, and would feel hurt. None of them are into computer games, but if thy were, know which ones I wouldn't want stumbling upon Truffs by accident :(

Erotic-Sludge

17-06-2005, 07:39 AM

:twisted: :twisted: THANK GOD YOU'RE NOT BLONDE :twisted: :twisted:

Vendor

17-06-2005, 08:29 AM

If you are genuinely interested in these issues BGM, you are sat right this moment in front of a PC. Try Google, there are many places that can provide answers to your questions far more effectively than a forum on a site dedicated to a first-person shooter game, where you have acquired a reputation for trolling. Two or three clicks should be enough to lead you to one of the many excellent resources that will explain the complex issues around how opressed groups struggle to subvert and reclaim language that has been used as part of their oppression. But two simple points can be drawn out here:

1) Not all oppressed groups are oppressed in identical ways. Obvious when you think about it really. This means that drawing analogies between (as here) racism and homophobia has to be done with HUGE care. Simplistic like-for-like analogies are therefore almost certain to lead to misunderstanding.

2) Not all oppressed groups respond to similar oppression in similar ways - in this "discussion" the way in which groups have attempted to reclaim oppressing language. Yes, significant numbers of black people try to use the term "nigger" in a way that THEY control and take pride in it. Yes, significant numbers of gay men use the term "gay" in a way they control and take pride in. BUT each group has very different levels of acceptance of the terms - use of the word "gay" as synonomous with male homosexual is almost universal within the gay community, and is generally considered as an acceptable description when used by hetrosexual people. The use of the word "nigger" has a totally different status, as we all know if we consider it for half a second or so. A very large number of black people find it unnacceptable even when used by other black people. Most black people find it inappropriate when used by white people. At the end of the day it is up to us to simply accept this, utterly regardless of your personal view as to what you think "their" best strategy "ought" to be.

This is all very interesting :sleeping: , and in another place I would be happy to go on about this (and not be quite so simplistic) for hours, but the relevance to the Truff community and language is this:

Racist language is unnacceptable, is regardly widely as unnacceptable, and is not going to be tolerated. This position is achievable, and when action is required, leads to effective, simple and socially-positive results.

Like it or not, the use of the term "gay" or "ghey" is frequently used in online communities to mean something similar to naff. While I personally would never use the term in this way, and personally do not feel particularly comfortable with its use in this way, it IS used in this fashion by many gay men, and many straight people feel (after careful thought) that the use in this way is not offensive. So although it MAY cause a degree of offence (which is why I find it pretty easy not to use), the offence would not be universally felt. Young men particularly are in the habit of using "gay" in their banter, due to their difficulty in reconciling their own complex sexual feelings with the simplistic model of male sexuality they feel enormous social pressure to conform to. Attempting to simply stop this in this particular community won't work, would cause enormous disruption and would in all likelihood be counter-productive.

However it IS achievable to ban overtly homophobic abuse on the servers, which we do. So the only remaining issue there is where we draw the line between mildly offensive "banter" and clear abuse. The answer is actually quite simple. It is a judgement call. No way round that. And guess what. Not all admins will draw the line in the same place. Not really a big deal to be quite honest - yes 100% consistency would be nice, but in real life is NOT going to happen.

Hopefully this is a reasonably neutral description of a number of complex issues, and how we try our best to respond to them, offered for those reading this thread who may be genuinely confused as to the actual issues.

Jeanie

17-06-2005, 08:33 AM

:clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Fantastic post Vendor

shred_dog

17-06-2005, 12:27 PM

As a distinguished member of the troll community :roll: , I'm deeply offended by the use of the word "troll" in the context it's used here. :roll: To add insult to injury, many of my people are starving, so the admonition to not 'feed the trolls' is even worse yet. :roll:

I've been on the Internet for about 10 years now. There's been a great amount of change and adaptation of many things, common cultural nomenclature included. The word 'ghey' is part of the internet nomenclature that has been adopted by many and understood by many for it's meaning - among other things, something inherently lame. I too, have a lot of gay friends, and i have a lot of ghey friends as well. A close friend of mine who is 'gay and proud' and very much an activist for many issues, made an awesome point when she and i discussed this last night: "People, gay or straight, CHOOSE to be or not to be offended by words like this. It's deliberately spelled different, its used in a totally different context for the purpose of not being confused with "gay" which people ALSO CHOOSE to be or not to be offended by." It's people that are insecure with their own phobias that CHOOSE to be offended by 'ghey'.

At first, I thought wtf WAS BGM just trying to start some controversy - which has now occured. I see now that I'm wrong, and that wtf is just a victim of someone walking on eggshells around an innoucuous word, but totally desensitized to the violence that makes UT so addictive, fun, and at the same time humourous.

willowgarden

17-06-2005, 01:48 PM

Excellent post Vendor :D

Shred-Dog - I find your commens about people choosing to be or not be offended by words somewhat confusing. f somethins causes you offence, it causes you offence - you do not hoose to be offende - you simply are. you may choose not to express your offence, but that is a different matter...

As a union equality and diversity rep I have to deal with these issues quite frequently, and it is rarely a strightforward matter :?

shred_dog

17-06-2005, 02:22 PM

This is what I mean, willow...

It's been well established that ghey and gay are two different words, meaning different things although they sound the same. Several posts here have determined that. Knowing that, people can choose to say "oh, okay. i understand. it's NOT an attack on people who are inclined towards the same sex." People can also choose to say "no, it sounds too much like a word I'm scared of, despite the fact that its been well documented that the word in question is NOT talking about homosexuals, and still I'm offended by it." Do white people that live in Nigeria object to being called Nigars? It sounds a lot like a more offensive word that many people (myself included) hate, but means people in Nigeria, just like Californians, or Welsh. Do "people from Wales" get offended the same way humans birthed by Orca would? Come on, now. Everyone here who has seen the name of that server may at first be put back, until they realize if they didnt already, that 'ghey' is a common word on the net. If they choose to apply it to homosexuals, that's THEIR problem. As a former member of a union bargaining unit, I know the game of 'looking for ammo' - trying to find things to hold agains the big bad corporation (or admins) thats holding down the people that don't want to work as hard but still get paid the same.

BGM, the word used here, 'Ghey', is not the same as the word used for homosexuals or the extremely happy. Now that you konw that, you can choose to keep it in the context where it belongs, or pretend it's an attack on gay people. The former will show you are capable of reason. The latter will prove you ignorant.

STINK_FINGER

17-06-2005, 03:23 PM

I think the Troll might burst!

willowgarden

17-06-2005, 03:26 PM

GAY PRIDE

http://erotic-sludge.truff.net/animalz/Lions%20gay%20pride.jpg

hmm, nothin to with 'gay' then :?

tbh, shred, I am not after ny kind of result here, I haven't expressed my reservations before, and cetainly didn't do it out of supporting bgm (who i suspect has hsi own reasons for such things...). I simply added the fact that, as it had been brought up, I would express my own reservations.

I am not offeded, but I know some people might be. That is all

Erotic-Sludge

17-06-2005, 03:34 PM

http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/sleepy%20-%20bored.gif

I like to play UT :D

shred_dog

17-06-2005, 03:36 PM

hmm, nothin to with 'gay' then :?

tbh, shred, I am not after ny kind of result here, I haven't expressed my reservations before, and cetainly didn't do it out of supporting bgm (who i suspect has hsi own reasons for such things...). I simply added the fact that, as it had been brought up, I would express my own reservations.

I am not offeded, but I know some people might be. That is all

well, I think sludgie's picture was poking fun at this thread. Would THAT be offensive to gay people? prolly. Willow, I think (from your posts) that youre an intellegent person. Youre capable of understanding whats going on here. As far as the people you know that might be offended, educate them on the difference between the words we discussed, (if its an issue - if not, who cares???) and leave the choice up to them whether they want to be offended or not.

I think stinkie's right. This has gone on long enough.

I just heard Waters is rejoining Pink Floyd for a benefit. How cool is this???

Erotic-Sludge

17-06-2005, 03:37 PM

Not as cool as the news that they are going to do a remake of "V" http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/wootdance.gif

STINK_FINGER

17-06-2005, 03:40 PM

Not as cool as the news that they are going to do a remake of "V" http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/wootdance.gif

You're wrong mate! Pink Floyd getting back together is far cooler than a remake of a program about aliens that ate hamsters!

Jeanie

17-06-2005, 03:40 PM

Not as cool as the news that they are going to do a remake of "V" http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/wootdance.gif

I LOVED V

Headshot

17-06-2005, 03:42 PM

:roll:

I must not forget to update my truffawards2005.txt

Erotic-Sludge

17-06-2005, 03:43 PM

You're wrong mate! Pink Floyd getting back together is far cooler than a remake of a program about aliens that ate hamsters!

Haha! they ate guinea pigs and mice, hamsters gave them wind http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/lol%205.gif

I LOVED V

and you can love it again very soon Jeanie my dear :D

willowgarden

17-06-2005, 03:54 PM

:roll:

I must not forget to update my truffawards2005.txt

u keep typing this when you don't like a post Mr Headshot, but

YOU WANNA CHANGE IT TO 2006 OR IT WON'T BE ANY USE NEXT YEAR :P

shred_dog

17-06-2005, 04:03 PM

Not as cool as the news that they are going to do a remake of "V" http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/wootdance.gif

Pink Floyd is doing a remake of 'V'???? is Syd Barrett playing the alien baby that the chick gives birth to???

The following comment may be offensive to some - so beware

I thought Pink Floyd was doing a movie about NASCAR racer Dale Earnhardt - both of their last big hits were The Wall

:roll:

Achiel

17-06-2005, 04:36 PM

i have often felt uncomfortable about the way ghey is used here - and had assumed 'ash to be a homosexual for many months before being told he wasn't :oops:

Otherwise i was turned to the pink side instead of the dark side. Master ash is just my evil ghey master not gay :twisted:

TurboSi

17-06-2005, 11:32 PM

Wow...there are some really good posts in this thread. My hats off to those of you that actually took the time to think about what you wrote. I also noticed BGM has suddenly stopped adding to the content here. It would appear his lame attempt to create a division in the community failed.

Anywho...back to the point. Myself, I've never used the word 'ghey' as a replacement or with the same meaning as 'gay'. But my point is...yeah, I'll get to it eventually. This is a large and mixed community. Eventually someone is going to get offended. Unlike many other communities Truff's for the most part is able to adapt and if there is a real problem the true Truff community will change to accomodate others.

On the other hand people may face a situation like I have. There was a short period when some people here took issues with 9/11 in a way I found very offencive. When they decided not to respect my feelings on the subject and continued I did what anyone here can do if they get oofended by something. I left.

Point being. There are certain aspects that make this community what it is. If someone is uncomfortable with that or we can't seem to accomodate their feelings then maybe they just shouldn't be here.

BGM...if you don't like me using the word ghey then maybe it's time you stop coming here. Out of the hundreds of people here you are the first to whine about it. When I weigh your feelings against the rest of the community you come out the big loser.

Willow. If you are bothered by the word ghey I will try to remember to refrain from using it when I see you around. You are worth quite alot to the community and I do try to accomodate decent people...but no promises for I am a ghey tart!!! (soz)

Shado

18-06-2005, 02:38 AM

I don't think this thread should be hijacked by an already redundant thread but.... well since Vendor blew BGM out of the water better than a nuclear tipped exocet missile....

Don’t forget I actually did go away and fake nicked for months without trouble. Only to be banned again after being wrongly accused of cheating.

No. This is complete bollocks. You fake nicked several times and were caught on each occasion because there was some sort of problem that came to admin attention. The problem player every time was banned. Guess what, that problem player turned out to be a fake nickking BGM. I take it that as you are still around on the forums then you are still around on the servers. I look forward to finding you again.

Regards,
~Shad

BGM

18-06-2005, 10:10 PM

First of all thanks to vendor for such a well thought out and intelligent post.

I had to read it a few times to actually take it all in. Can’t really argue much with what you said. In fact it’s actually to intelligent for me to actually pick out one thing and reply to it.
:P

All in all it’s just a really interesting post that has many valid points. Now I know why vendor is voted highly in the clever sections of the Truff awards ;)

shred_dog I don’t really know what you’re talking about…

People, gay or straight, CHOOSE to be or not to be offended by words like this.

Yes that is very much true. Can’t argue with that. But it’s not much different than nigger and people “choose” to be offended by it. Doesn’t mean I can go around using the word. Nor can i go around using it spelt differently and claiming it to have a different meaning.

It's deliberately spelled different, its used in a totally different context for the purpose of not being confused with "gay" which people ALSO CHOOSE to be or not to be offended by."

Huh? People were deliberately calling things Gay as meaning naff, dumb, stupid etc. as offence to homosexuals. That is where the word ghey comes from. It’s used in a totally different context now because people changed the spelling to make it less offensive. It shouldn’t work like that.

Basically shred_dog it seems you have completely accepted this “brand new” word as meaning something completely different to gay, which it does, so long as you ignore where it comes from. You completely disregard the fact that it comes from the offensive aspect of the word gay.

Erotic-Sludge, you are the most avid user of ghey, yet you have yet to make a non-sarcastic post. Most probably because you know exactly why the word is used and where it comes from and you couldn’t give a crap if people find it offensive.

Love it how people go completely off topic because wither 1. they have nothing constructive to write, or 2. They actually find themselves agreeing with me and they don’t want to go against the “way of the admins”.

Funny how Achiel used to agree with me on this. Yet now he seems to join in with the rest of you. Funny how things change when you are sitting on the other side of the fence.

I also noticed BGM has suddenly stopped adding to the content here

Whoops, sorry for not posting one day. Won’t happen again I promise.

It would appear his lame attempt to create a division in the community failed.

ROFL. :D That’s what you see it as? It was never meant as that. But by that comment you obviously accept that some people are offended by this word and are pleased that nobody who plays at truffs is owning up to it. Enough said.

From reading your post it seems Ghey is perfectly acceptable “in your community”. Fair enough. You still would never use it outside of the community though and the reasons are clear. Maybe use it to friends when homosexuals are not around but you wouldn’t go further than that.

No. This is complete bollocks. You fake nicked several times and were caught on each occasion because there was some sort of problem that came to admin attention. The problem player every time was banned.

You are right with part of that. I did fake nick several times, and yes I was an asshat and deserved to be banned each and every time. However the last nick I used, “Chesthair”, was a nick I used for many months without any trouble at all. The only trouble arose when I was accused of cheating, and banned. Twice, might I add.
Once by laupsavea the second time by dussander (kicked me and told me not to come back), and I didn’t because I didn’t want trouble. That’s some anti-cheat admin you have there btw. Someone who can’t tell a cheat :?

I was then "found out" after trying to explain my situation on IRC. Which I did politely btw. I never caused a fuss at all.

I take it that as you are still around on the forums then you are still around on the servers. I look forward to finding you again.

Good luck. I don’t even play UT offline any more. So you will find it pretty hard to find me.

TurboSi

18-06-2005, 10:27 PM

From reading your post it seems Ghey is perfectly acceptable “in your community”. Fair enough. You still would never use it outside of the community though and the reasons are clear. Maybe use it to friends when homosexuals are not around but you wouldn’t go further than that.

Interesting...you don't know a damn thing about me yet you have decided when and where I use words. I could play verbal war games in here all you want but I'd rather not. I do have a real life away from the computer and seldom spend much time worring about what happens online.

Good luck. I don’t even play UT offline any more. So you will find it pretty hard to find me.
Good, maybe this means you will find a life and find out being an elite player on UT pretty much adds up to nothing.

sausage

18-06-2005, 11:28 PM

I have been reading this thread with interest, and I cant totally accept Vendor's interpretation, despite how well written it was.

The term Ghey is insulting because it is used in conjunction with the word crap. Therefore, by association, that which is crap is ghey and that which is ghey is crap. That is why this is offensive. I will say that as far as offensive things go, it ranks below making the word anus unusable as part of a nick, but it is still somewhat offensive. I checked it out on a couple of gay friends of mine and they agree that it is offensive. However, I dont need to ask my friends in order to be sure off what i believe.

I dont have any interest in trying to force a change of names; Im a big boy now and dont feel the need to legislate my morality on the rest of you. However, to suggest that the word is not derogitory because of the way it is spelled (for example) is ridiculous.

Because some of us know gay people, or may be gay ourselves does not give us the right to determine for others what we each find offensive in our hearts and minds.

LIke I said, I dont think its a big deal, but lets not play pointless games in semantics in order to justify a slur against a body of the public. Despite how mild this particular slur may be.

best wishes,

saus

Erotic-Sludge

18-06-2005, 11:46 PM

INTERLUDE

http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/dance%20munkeh.gif

Tonton_Alfred

19-06-2005, 12:12 AM

I have to say I really agree with sausage, the association crap with ghey sound so... errrr crap :D
at the same time, this couldn't change my mind about gays, sometimes, a word loses its meaning so... anyway, we should ban this from our language, as a proof of kindness towards gay community

Lardy

19-06-2005, 12:17 AM

is that like half-time?

Lardy

19-06-2005, 12:19 AM

my boss is gay and I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it in jest about something that i thought was crap, hes a nice guy and we get along, regardless of whether he would be offended or not it is disrespectful

Erotic-Sludge

19-06-2005, 12:35 AM

OK time to rename the server to :-

"The cheap and shoddy material characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement Server"

Just to be politically correct of course :wink:

sausage

19-06-2005, 01:10 AM

ooooh!!! I like it...very catchy :wink:

Flash

19-06-2005, 08:39 AM

It's a schoolkid thing, picking on a difference. Kids are really nasty. Fat/ugly/black/gay/short/tall etc.

Yet... When confronted with a genuine gay person pretty much all kids now don't have an actual problem, they just perpetuate the name-calling because it's what their mates do, and because kids learn from their elders (immediate elders, those a year or so up) then it's passed on and continued.

Also we as a culture are going through some pretty interesting changes. Homosexuality hasn't been legal for /that/ long, lesbianism wasn't even recognised as possible until relatively recently (Queen Victoria stated it could no happen so wasn't a problem), and most western armies still haven't gotten themselves particularly sorted about homosexuality, especially the american forces. (Arguably, American culture has a bigger impact than our own in the UK, especially with the young.)

So perhaps all these mixed messages go someway to explaining why yer average child thinks it's ok to mock someone about their supposed sexuality, but actually don't have a problem with it when forced to face the issue face to face; hence the calling of "ghey" doesn't automatically assume homophobia. It's not witty, it's not clever - it's just kids being stupid as kids often are - and why not, they're forced to grow up quicker and quicker. Half of my childhood was spent in those precious years before marketing twigged that children are valuable tools to sell crap to, and to pressure adults to buy crap. I think kids have a pretty crap time of growing up in today's society so maybe it's no surprise a few antisocial habits creep in?

And kids can be any age. :D

willowgarden

19-06-2005, 11:39 AM

let's us call it the 'crap and utter shite' server... then noone can complain when Bridge too far or that interminably boring airstaions ctf map comes on :twisted:

I-CEE

19-06-2005, 12:35 PM

The word Ghey is used outside of the internet in britain its used all the time .English is the hardest language to learn why because one word can have 3 -4 diffrent meanings .
example

jam can mean some jam you eat or to jam meaning to dance or to play with group of musicians

catch to catch a ball or to catch a cold

cell to be locked in a cell or a cell in your body

just like in the 80's the word bad was used , meaning good again wicked was used to mean good.

the word gay as been used for many years for many diffrent meanings .
and will be used in many diffrent ways again.

I had a chat with a gay friend of mine this morning showed him this he thought it was real funny that some ppl who are not gay thought they knew what a gay person would feel like . ROFL

he said the only word he hated been called was a puff .

BGM you really dont know much about the world yet you try to make yourself look wise in all things I suggest you go out and play with the real ppl before you post more, then you may know what you are talking about
The ppl you know are all 17-23 still forming ideas about the world yet to go out and work for a living.

this is the time you learn I mean really learn about ppl . so come back when you have grown up learnt a bit about life stop having an argument with the world and his dog . stop and listen you may learn .

i may start useing the word BGM meaning troll from now on

Jeanie

19-06-2005, 02:26 PM

Apparently
<snipped>
done.

What a load of biased baloney.

Note to all others: don't feed the troll.

Think Truff may have a point, I suggest we dont reply anymore to BGM. He is only after causing trouble which is apparently what he is good at.

I suggest we all give each other a big hug and laught it off.

:lol:

:fluffle:

Anyone else?

BullDog

19-06-2005, 02:28 PM

always considered that Ghey in a UT sense meant the same thing as lame.

as in 'Crap n Lame' server

BGM

19-06-2005, 02:36 PM

And puff also has other meanings. So why would he not like that word. :?

The words you mentioned were not changed in spelling. Nor did they originate from a word that was derogatory to homosexuals.
The word gay has not has its original meaning since before victorian times. And the word gay is used as a put down in the real world today by straight people exactly as you guys use the word ghey. (the same meaning but you use it in light way)

btw why does your friend not like being called a magic dragon? Surely that could be good thing? Big, strong and magical. Sounds good to me. Or maybe you can call him a phufff. That's a weird silent h i have in there and 3 f's. Give the word a new meaning and its good to go.

http://www.musicstudents.com/shop/hl/images/02504148.jpg

TurboSi

19-06-2005, 03:21 PM

lol BGM...you are not being very original or thinking very hard. You keep posting the same argument (which was lame) but change which word you wanna argue about....

Puff...definitions
a short light gust of air
smoke and exhale strongly; "puff a cigar"; "whiff a pipe"
a light inflated pastry or puff shell
suck in or take (air); "draw a deep breath"; "draw on a cigarette"
exaggerated praise (as for promotional purposes)
pant: breathe noisily, as when one is exhausted; "The runners reached the finish line, panting heavily"
quilt: bedding made of two layers of cloth filled with stuffing and stitched together
make proud or conceited; "The sudden fame puffed her ego"

Ok...now that was covered it's time to get back to the point. The problem is in what context a word is used...not the word. The original definition of gay meant to be fun. It was while I was a kid that it started to be used for homosexuality. So when I was younger if someone said 'he is so gay' you had to look to see if the person being talked about was wearing satin bicycle shorts or if they were enjoying themselves.

To me it appears the internet community is trying to find a way to use the word gay in it's original context. I've been in this community long enough to know ghey has never been used in an insulting context or in reference to homosexuality. Even when our favorite dicksplash ITWT pops in to insult ash, duss and myself he uses the word 'gay'.

So I have to wonder...since you are so offended by 'ghey' are you having homophobic issues? Maybe you are uncomfortable with you're sexuality? Either way I'm sure you can find a support group able to help you resolve your issues.

Truff

19-06-2005, 04:05 PM

Well said TurboSi.

Let's also consider the full name of the server - Crap'n'Ghey Maps FUN Server. I think it's clear looking at the word 'ghey' in that context that it is used simply to mean fun or a bit silly and nothing more.

Sausage argued earlier that using the term 'crap' in the same phrase as 'ghey' was offensive as somehow that meant that ghey = crap by association. If that is the case then you should also put the word 'fun' in there too and you'll see that it changes the argument somewhat.

I really shouldn't wheel out the 'I have gay friends' argument but - I do, and as they understand the context in which the word is used it isn't an issue for them. I can understand that without understanding the full context of the use of the word that some may find the term offensive, however the name of the server was chosen as the term 'ghey' has a long history of use within the community and was felt to be an appropriate description of the type of maps to be played on the server.

I feel that we've reached the point in this debate where we are beginning to go around in circles. Unless you have something new and different to bring to it please let's not have more of the same as the past 4 pages.

Jinx

19-06-2005, 06:30 PM

I like to play on the "crap & Ghey " server now and again and tbh this is getting blown well outta hand.

Fact 1 . UT is a game.

Fact 2 . It`s the name ov a ut server.

If it`s name was so offensive then ppl would NOT play there.
The ppl who i no ov who use this term in irc say it in a joking way and would not say the word to a new commer. It is mostly said to friends ect who no that it`s term is not in any way being offensive.

well imo anyways

BGM

19-06-2005, 07:57 PM

Link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x12059) <--click me

Posted on a GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender) Issues forum. The posts speak for themselves. Oh look they all agree.

Other posts I read just either ripped the piss out of homosexuals even more, or do the stupid spelling of words thing.

So before you start calling me a troll and such, read up and this is actually a word disliked by many people including myself.
True that it shouldn’t be discussed on a UT forum, but you have a server using the word and people in the truff community that use it freely.

You are pretty stupid if you use the word anyway tbh. It's not even clever. When i see things like "ash is soo ghey", just makes me think whoever said it pretty much an idiot. Even taking into account the way you guys use it.

Guess you’re all in your own little world or something and just ignore everything else outside it.

I-CEE

19-06-2005, 08:33 PM

yawn :sleeping:

Jeanie

19-06-2005, 08:38 PM

Guess you’re all in your own little world or something and just ignore everything else outside it.

Of course we are, I mean you couldnt possibly be wrong....ever :lol: :lol: :lol:

19-06-2005, 09:04 PM

BGM if you don't like the talk or names around here, you can remove the link from your favorites list . If you Don't like the names of the servers here you can leave an you won't be Missed by anyone . So either shove off or stop flapping your lips . Nothing more then dribble coming out of them .No one is interested in you opinions or what your latest rave is .Just look back through the posts .You see any stating oh what a wonderful person you are .Or anyone saying wow I'm sure glad BGM pointed this stuff out for me :roll: . Bottom line your not needed here your not wanted here .No one gives a rats ass about what you have to say or what your feelings are about anything .So It's time you stopped blowing smoke up everyones arse an move on . We have heard it all from you before, it was dribble then an it's dribble now . There is nothing keeping you here any more other then your :twisted: sense of being wronged by the community .So just go back to your fantasy world that you live in, were you think someone cares about what you think .As it's plain to see, an has been told to you in more tactful ways then I care to use :cussing: .Your just not wanted here. An as far as I'm concerned your worth less then navel lint . I'm sure there are others here who share this sediment with me also .Must be a hell of a life to have to resort to annoying people, that don't care about you in order to make yourself feel important :roll: .So talk a long walk of a short pier, might be just what you need to get your head screwed back on straight .Now don't go away mad but please just go away .It's getting you no were with all this foolishness. I'm sure you can find something more constructive to do with your time. Maybe something like write a thesis on the word Ghey compared to Gay .Hell you never know it might be a best seller .Or maybe one about lamers at the Truff servers now that's a topic you would have first hand knowledge about .

TurboSi

19-06-2005, 09:49 PM

So before you start calling me a troll and such, read up and this is actually a word disliked by many people including myself.

Ummm...who cares what you think!?!?

You are pretty stupid if you use the word anyway tbh. It's not even clever.

Then why are you making such an issue of it?

BTW...when I call you a troll i'm not refering to a Scandinavian dwarf that lives in a cave. That would be insulting to our vertically challenged friends. When I call you a troll it means a dicksplash who has no life and is afraid to walk away from the computer for fear that once the real world sees you for what you are it'll kick you in the nuts.

Sorry Truff...but it's kinda fun to kick this perv around after all the problems he caused in the past. What I don't understand is he keeps saying he's gonna take his ball and go home...but he never does!?!? Could it be he enjoys the abuse? Maybe it's the only attention he gets in life. Sad...so very sad. :(

Davis

19-06-2005, 11:19 PM

1. ghey
Usurping the traditional term GAY to take the homosexual meaning out and leaving in the lame.

ghey doesnt mean anything to do with homosexuals, if a homosexual wants to be offended by this then there plain daft,

'm sure all you admins could easily call each other ghey in your local if there was a homsexual around without feeling guilty, right? I think not.
this is not our *local* as u call it and to compare real life to the internet is wrong as far as language is concerned, u wouldnt run around your *local shouting ROFLMAO if u found something funny would you? i declare you extremely stupid if u do.

Snowie

20-06-2005, 02:43 AM

Phat = good (portly ppl cringe?)
Spot on = good (acne sufferers cringe?)
word = good/understood (dyslexics cringe?)
ghey = (see above)

Children are re-inventing english, some even being added to dictionary's.
So only one thing we can do.
Gag all the kids and all learn Hebrew
:)

הסתיים של

BullDog

20-06-2005, 08:49 AM

lock it down

willowgarden

20-06-2005, 10:02 AM

erm, have been kown to say 'Roffle' occsionally when finding something funny... in pubs, at home, at work etc...

still gotta say I think there is no difference between 'ghey' and a homophobic 'gay' on many ocasions when it's used round here. Like when I say on the servers 'I need a fag' and get replies about ash not being around. or maybe fag has a new ut meaning...

You don't have to mean to be offernsve to cause offenc, and if you blind yourself to the fact that what you're doing might cause offnce then hiding behind semantic word play and ridicule of people who have a different perspective to yourelf isnt helpful

Erotic-Sludge

20-06-2005, 10:10 AM

This has got to be the gheyest thread ever!!!!!!!!!

Erotic-Sludge

20-06-2005, 12:27 PM

Actually, I think I might start a lobby group to get the whole bloody game banned.

I'm against violence!

shred_dog

20-06-2005, 12:29 PM

sludgie, what do you have against violins? oops... damn those words sounded a LOT alike. :roll:

Flash

20-06-2005, 12:55 PM

All through life, no matter how fairly you try to behave, somebody somewhere will take offense at something you say, do or are.

sausage

20-06-2005, 03:02 PM

Well said, Willow. I agree completely

Jeanie

20-06-2005, 03:32 PM

You don't have to mean to be offernsve to cause offenc, and if you blind yourself to the fact that what you're doing might cause offnce then hiding behind semantic word play and ridicule of people who have a different perspective to yourelf isnt helpful

I actually think thats unfair Willow, I agree that you dont have to mean to be offensive to cause offence but the rest is a little judgmental perhaps.

The fact of it is that this isnt real life, I know the issues surrounding diversity and equality within the workplace etc. However this is an online internet gaming community, the plain fact of the matter is that its not real life.....simple.

That doesnt mean to say that we shouldnt voice opinions on stuff like this, of course we should but it needs to be put into some kind of context.

For example most of the female skins on UT are women wearing little or next to nothing, is that the correct way to perceive women, is that all we are....eye candy for the male players? After all this is a male dominated game where women come under a lot of stick, but it doesnt bother me...because all the banter is all good natured and the skins on the servers make me chuckle (do women really have breasts that big???)

there are things I say and do online that I would never say in real life, rightly or wrongly I do. However I dont think I am a bad person nor am I insensitive to the feeling of others.

STINK_FINGER

20-06-2005, 04:48 PM

(do women really have breasts that big???)

Yes they do Jeanie!!! http://youponder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sausage2/boobies.png (Thanks for the gif Sludgie!)

I feel a bit left out of this discussion, I am not gay & I have no gay friends (not through choice, I just don't know any!)
But I did go & see Bronski Beat in 1985! Does this make me ghey? If it does I will be extremely offended & I may have to post a load of bollocks!

willowgarden

20-06-2005, 07:30 PM

I may have to post a load of bollocks!

Oh, surely not :twisted:

Achiel

20-06-2005, 07:41 PM

http://www.puppybreak.com/puppybank/24.208.137.198.1075910950051.jpg

Mr_Spoons

20-06-2005, 09:18 PM

:rofl:

Did you trawl through all 1089 puppies to find this Achiel? :lol:

FoamyGal

20-06-2005, 10:49 PM

What is the purpose posting like 5 pages long in this thread?! Wether replying to BGM or not doesn*t change the fact no one is supposed to post in this thread as well as in the entire forum section in general. :? Personally I never had any probs with BGM back when he still played, so when he comes whinging I keep out of any discussion all the times, but I don*t post in this thread OR section as Truff doesn*t want this thread to be extended and as a member I follow the rules strictly and loyal. The whingers section would not be accessible to anyone else than admins if the circumstance that whingers (players) could not post here then wouldnot be a misfortunate fact.

What most people missed anyway is that the whingers section is not for anyone but whingers and admins, and I think the admins don*t point at that cus it could piss some people off. I know it is interesting at some points or tempting to give a comment but these are the leader*s words to all of us: :)

´This forum is for the discussion of players who believe they have been treated unfairly on the servers (...). Posts in here usually get my and the other admins' attention when they first join the forum. Thank you for your co-operation.

These things aren*t aimed to soil peoples posting fun, these things just are facts I think TrufF never repeated as she did not wanted to make you think she want*s to limit anyones posting freedom. It shouldn*t need to lock a thread to keep members chill to the rules. Play by COC - Also, post by it. I posted in Whingers when CruiseJarmin was banned as it was on my request. But in general I don*t feel like allowed to post in Whingers as it is the rule not to post here, so is everyone that is not an admin. Pointing at this might piss some people off but it must not be able to as we all agreed to the TrufF rules, and these lines are parts of these rules. I just pointed at the Whingers Forum*s purpose by this. Icould not resist as b4, the massive chat thats going on here tempted me to actslly reply and talk in the "my name" thread. Plz all stop posting in whingers, its vs the rules of the forum.:!:

P.S.: Si, you forgot the german translation of Puff-->Whore-house. ;)

TurboSi

20-06-2005, 11:58 PM

True Foamy...this thread is going around in circles and is giving some of us a chance to practice our debating skills. On the other hand...it also gives some of us who had to deal with certain individuals and their abuse of the servers/community a chance to tie them to the whipping post and flog them in public...in a somewhat nice way. At least nicer than what they did.

Just consider these friendly bashings as a way for us to let off steam instead of taking it to the servers and just banning everyone.

And to be honest...I've seen some terriffic posts that have been well thought out...even if I don't agree with them so in it's own perverse way this has been a constructive thread.

Sludgie...I'm willing to sign your petition to ban UT. It obviously is corrupting the youth of the world and causing them to become stupid and mispell words.

BAN The UT!!!
http://www.dadalos.org/frieden_int/images/PistoleUNO.jpg

Scion

21-06-2005, 11:46 AM

ok so i been reading this thread and tried so hard to resist saying this but here goes

its spelt and pronounced POOF not PUFF :lol:

not one fo you noticed the deliberate mistake, even the all clever BGM with his knowledge in all things in the world and all the other posters with gay friends never noticed it, the entire section of argument about puff is pointless and you have all wasted your time :lol:

just for the record i too have / had alot of gay friends and over the years socialised the gay scene to a point that i was known as the local straight guy, i however find the term straight really offensive to me personally, another word used to describe gays is bent and oh look no change of spelling or pronounciation in that one, so if i was to go to a mate and say i got a bender in the boot of the car he would be upset with me? (of course a bender is an object we use at work to bend metal tubes and which in fact does fit in the boot so i can move it from job to job)

for your information my gay friends actually dont mind if i call my mates ghey wookies or some such as the phrase in its entirety comes across as a joke not an insult (this is the key point here, you dont just take the single word you take the whole phrase as this can change the meaning of a word so completely) and yes i do, have done, and will again use the term in a public place with gays around knowing that the majority of them will find it inoffensive.

i would agree this whole thread smacks of someone who is unsure of there own sexuality right now as most true gays dont actually find these terms offensive, only those who are unsure of there selves actually make a big deal out of it and as such i feel it should be crushed :P

BTW does this also mean THE BIG GAY OUT that happened here in the uk recently was offensive to gays? if so how come so many of them turned up to it?

BGM your argument that ghey was taken from gay (the offensive term aimed at gay people) is also so much shit bcos like i said before the term gay (the offensive term aimed at gay people) originated from the term gay (as in happy/fun) from the victorian times so in actual fact the english slang word GHEY is an attempt to regain the true meaning of the original word gay although it hasnt quite got there yet.

so closing words

this whole thread is pointless, everyone is offended by something and if we all spent our lives worrying about offending others we would never socialise with anyone ever again, so lets all get on with our lives and just enjoy ourselves.

now i would request this thread be crushed as it has gone and is going nowhere.

sci